Forum Regs: Anyone want to discuss balance?

I'm looking for someone willing to discuss the theory of balance in a game (in context to the CoD series and upcoming title MW3). I really want to create a conversation about how a game can be balanced and how this should concern developers. Of course, if this goes well, it could expand to something where we discuss all aspects of the game and the business that encompasses it, but that's down the road. I really enjoy a lot (okay maybe some) of the discussions that have been on these boards over the years about game balance. Whether it's been about a certain weapon, perk, killstreak, or the infamous deathstreaks, some posts have really brought different ideas to the table about what is truly unbalanced. So, if you are interested in participating, I ask that you have:

 

+ maturity

This means that you are about to critically think and analyze a shooter like CoD. It also means that you must be able to respect the views of another person and have the ability to "agree to disagree". Also, the way you use the language also comes into play here. Basically what I mean this is that you must be able to string a sentence together without cussing.

 

+ basic communication skills

I do not set the bar very high in this area (especially when it comes to a live discussion rather than a written post), but you must be able to express your thoughts in a clear and precise manner. Under this category also comes the technical detail of being able to communicate through Skype with a quality microphone.

 

+ experience

I ask that you have played CoD4 at the very minimum. A lot of discussion will be around the games prior to MW3 and Black Ops so knowledge about these titles is necessary.

 

+ an opposing view

You must fundamentally disagree with me. This isn't so that we can have shout matches about why the other guy is wrong, but only so we can have an honest discussion instead of saying "yeah, i agree" every few seconds. The whole point is to talk about things and bring new ideas to the table so that people will begin to think about game balance in a more analytical (and theoretical) manner. This means that you must believe that in order for a game to be balanced, it must give equal options to every player. That sounds kind of obvious but I can and will dispute that with a different definition of "balance". An example may be that you didn't mind deathstreaks and think that killstreaks are no problem at all when it comes to game balance.

 

+ commitment

Obviously, you must be committed to the discussion for a length of time. We can't just talk for a few minutes and then have you leave for something.

 

 

This broadcast will be played live. This means that viewers will be able to raise questions challenging either of our beliefs while we are talking. After its completion it will be uploaded to YouTube. Hopefully, this will be a lightening rod to create much more intelligent and mature discussion about the game (perhaps even on these forums). Currently, the idea is to have 3 participants in the discussion, all with varying ideas on balance. I asked for forum regulars because we generally have more to say, are more experienced with the Call of Duty games, and are more willing to have passionate discussions.

 

So, would you be interested in participating, either as a viewer or talker? If so, just let me know and go ahead and start in this thread. Tell me what was unbalanced about the CoD games you've played (please list them if that's the case) and which one would be your pick for the most balanced.

 

Discussion Info


Last updated July 3, 2018 Views 5 Applies to:

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Id discuss balancing issues with you but not on YT, Im not fancy on seeing/hearing myself on the net. Great idea though, Ill watch it for sure

I'm down for this stuff. But I'll probably be out of the MW3 conversation for a while until I actually buy the game (no money).

For now I can still talk about Black Ops.

Sounds like a great idea Jag.  I would like to participate as a talker but I'm unfortunately not all that great at just that......"talking"  in a discussion/debate for that matter.  I'm not very articulate at gathering or voicing my opinions in a debate setting. Especially since whenever I'm in that kind of situation,  I'm usually drunk and therefore rendered useless.  I'd like to view though.  Providing that it's at a time that would allow me to do it.  I would definitely be able to add questions to the talkers.  I just wouldnt want to be of the main focus.

Sounds like a fun time.

"Happy Drinking"

I wouldn't mind.

[quote user="x24hrs2livex"]

Id discuss balancing issues with you but not on YT, Im not fancy on seeing/hearing myself on the net. Great idea though, Ill watch it for sure

[/quote]

Yeah, you could certainly be a good audience member then, thanks. As far as seeing, I don't know what I will arrange. Perhaps I could gather some simple footage to present via screen capture showing what we plan to discuss. Hm...

[quote user="gameshoes3003"]

I'm down for this stuff. But I'll probably be out of the MW3 conversation for a while until I actually buy the game (no money).

For now I can still talk about Black Ops.

[/quote]

I didn't do a good job at putting a time table with my original post, mainly because a lot of it depends on the reaction that I receive in this thread. The current idea is that we are to do this before MW3 releases, where we only reference what is planned to be in the game. Speculation like that gets us to really think about the game from the developer's view, like the question, "Why did they decide to make this change?" After this so-called "Pilot" episode, I'll decide whether I want to do similar discussions on various topics after November. This initial discussion would be more about comparing the other CoD games to what's said to be in MW3, as well as the discussing the whole theory of balance. Later topics could include more specific things in game as well as generalities about the business side of CoD (like the ever popular topic - DLC pricing).

[quote user="LOUISE CYPHRE"]

Sounds like a great idea Jag.  I would like to participate as a talker but I'm unfortunately not all that great at just that......"talking"  in a discussion/debate for that matter.  I'm not very articulate at gathering or voicing my opinions in a debate setting. Especially since whenever I'm in that kind of situation,  I'm usually drunk and therefore rendered useless.  I'd like to view though.  Providing that it's at a time that would allow me to do it.  I would definitely be able to add questions to the talkers.  I just wouldnt want to be of the main focus.

Sounds like a fun time.

"Happy Drinking"

[/quote]

Thanks. I hate to use the word debate because it won't really be so organized with time limits and specific questions to one another. Basically we'll just let each other talk and reflect on what they have to say. Time of the day and day of the week are of course to be determined. I suspect that it would be best to do at night but not too late, so I guess we'll just have to go from there. I will certainly post in this thread when the time comes.

You could always use Video kinect chat to do it if you have it and record that way. I am to lazy to look at your games to see if you have any kinect titles.

[quote user="Jagriff"]+ maturity nope

+ basic communication skills of course not

+ experience 

+ an opposing view

+ commitment between runescape and watching cartoons, no time.

[/quote] I got 2 of the 3, good enough?

I wouldn't mind.

Dealing with balancing in Cod, it seems as though they become more and more unbalenced as time goes on. New gimmicks are going to be added to every new game in order to give it that "new" feel, which will inevitably lead to imbalences. Compare WaW to MW2. WaW had 3 killstreaks which were all very easy to counter and wouldn't really decide the victor of the match. MW2 however, was the exact opposite. The killstreaks may have been easy to counter for some but the fact that one had to completely change their play style to either avoid them or destroy them (hide inside or switch to a Stinger class) made the game quite unbalenced. Also, killstreaks completely controlled the outcome of the match. The first team to get their harrier/chopper gunner up would almost always win. That was not the case with WaW/Cod4. I don't have a problem with killstreaks and there is no way they would ever be taken out or reduced back to a 3/5/7 but future devs should really try to tone them down a bit. Overall, make killstreaks so that they are still effective but not completely dominating.

.

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Secondly, stopping power should be kept out but the perks need to be grouped better. One of the biggest problems with Black Ops was that without stopping power, ghost had no real competition, making it a very widely used perk. Removing stopping power was a step in the right direction but in order for it it work as intended, the better perks needed to be all grouped together or in doubles in each perk slot. By doing this, people actually have to choose between important perks and make different classes for different situations.

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On to the guns. IMO, the more the better. What the devs need to do is slightly alter each gun's stats corresponding to its unlock level so that they each have their own unique advantages/disadvantages but overall, they all preform according to the level they are unlocked. They should all preform similar to the rest of the guns that are unlocked closely to it. So beginning guns should all be slightly different but really, very alike. This should continue all the way up to the max level, with each gun group becoming slightly better than the last every 10 or 15 levels.

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Lastly, how players are rewarded or what they are rewarded for should change. Players should never be rewarded for doing badly, under any circumstances. We were all in the same situation they were at some point but if someone holds our hand, we will truly never become better. Also, players should be rewarded more for actually completing objectives, not just going for kills (disregarding TDM). Killstreaks should be unlocked by point limits, not kills. Objectives should always give more points than kills and killstreaks should take longer to achieve than before, foring players to play the objective if they want to be on top. If everyone is rewarded substantially more points for capturing objectives and objectives give you points that go towards your kill streaks, the game will see much less camping/kill whoring.

[quote user="x24hrs2livex"]

You could always use Video kinect chat to do it if you have it and record that way. I am to lazy to look at your games to see if you have any kinect titles.

[/quote]

I'm unfamiliar with Kinect. What would that show? My plan was just to capture my PC screen with certain media already linked for reference.

 

@KOtheOGODHDSHOT: Thank you for the reply. I will fully reply to it later.

[quote user="KOtheOGODHDSHOT"]

Lastly, how players are rewarded or what they are rewarded for should change. Players should never be rewarded for doing badly, under any circumstances. We were all in the same situation they were at some point but if someone holds our hand, we will truly never become better. Also, players should be rewarded more for actually completing objectives, not just going for kills (disregarding TDM). Killstreaks should be unlocked by point limits, not kills. Objectives should always give more points than kills and killstreaks should take longer to achieve than before, foring players to play the objective if they want to be on top. If everyone is rewarded substantially more points for capturing objectives and objectives give you points that go towards your kill streaks, the game will see much less camping/kill whoring.

[/quote]  Arent capturing objectives counting towards KSR's in 3?


"Happy Drinking"

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