Well I'm on my 3rd xbox and after the Nov. update my console takes up to 30 minutes to load to the dash board and another 10 to load a game. Once I'm finally playing a game it lags like crazy, offline with no HDD installed. It also will no longer connect to Xbox Live but connects to the internet just fine. I've tried clearing the cache and formatting the xbox, still the same problem. Today I reinstalled the update and it only make things worse. So I'm not very happy with this, 2 consoles later and I still have problems. If this problem can not be resolved WITHOUT sending my xbox in for repair, I would like a FULL refund for the console and my Xbox live that I can't use because of this.