where is the bitstream lossless audio for bluray playback

We now have a bluray player built into the xbox one but no lossless audio for A/V receivers. True we have pcm, but like most home theater owner's , I want my receiver to do.the decompression, and the little light to say master dts hd or true hd. This was a day one option for the other console, why has this not been added yet. This is a huge deal for home theater owner's.

 

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Last updated July 4, 2018 Views 58 Applies to:

I think that's overstating it a bit. PCM gives you lossless HD sound. That's what most home theater owners want, no?

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I dont think its an overstatement at all. True pcm is loseless , but it comes down to what you want to do the decompression. Most home theater owners dont spend $1000 and more to have the player do it. I dont understand why the isnt an option, I can buy a 69 dollar bluray that can send loseless through bitstream but my 500 dollar xbox one can't. Especially since my ps4 has done it from day one.

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It does not matter one bit whether the player does the decoding or the audio receiver does it.  All decoders work the same.  It's a straightforward process.  If someone ever thinks they hear a difference, it's the placebo effect.

Similarly, you can buy a $10 calculator or a $200 calculator, but if they both do division, they both do division.  The results from the $200 calculator doing division aren't going to be any "better" or more "accurate" then the $10 calculator.

The Xbox One has to decode all audio signals it receives into PCM, because it is always ready to mix audio on the fly, incase the user snaps something, or whatever.  It will probably never output a lossless compression codec.  Considering it would be completely pointless, I hope Microsoft doesn't waste any resources on implementing it.

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I would partial agree with some of what you have said, but think you may need to do more research. Testing has found that when the audio is sent bitstream ( uncompressed) to an av receiver and the component is allowed to do the decompression, there is a better level of detail and clarity. If this wasnt the case, why just leave the components as pass through , like they were early on in the bluray life cycle. It does matter to those people who are truly into nice home theater and spend the money for good equipment. Even the ps3 started with just pcm and eventually went to bitstream with the slim. Even if you look at this option on most bluray players its called audiophile bitstream. Its like the xbox one took a step backwards. I have both, and its sad I have to switch to my ps4  to watch a movie through my equipment the way I like. If I was a person with a nice home theater looking to buy a next gen console and one did bitstream and the other couldnt, this would worry me. You ask 99% of home theater audiophiles and they will say the same.

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Show me a link to this testing.  I would like to see some double-blind, volume-matched testing showing that people can hear the difference between PCM and bitstream output on a blu ray player.

People think because they are aware of the placebo effect that they know better and aren't affected by it.  Research has shown the exact opposite to be true, that being aware of the placebo effect makes people more prone to it.

Nearly everything I've read on the subject says that all decoders work the same.  Decoding is a straightforward process, just like a calculator doing division.  Most expert opinions I've seen have said there will be no difference in audio quality between selecting PCM or bitstream on the player, or if there are any small differences (and I mean small) it would be in the receiver treating PCM and bitstream signals differently and one format isn't consistently better.  Most recommendations I've seen are for PCM anyway, because if you ever listen to secondary audio tracks you can only get lossless audio with PCM.  If you listen to secondary tracks with bitstream selected, you are limited to basic Dolby or DTS.  So I would seriously doubt that 99% of "home theater audiophiles" would recommend bitsream output.

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However, you can also get the player to decode TrueHD/DTSMA to MPCM or pass out HBR bitstream (supported by both source and receiver). In such cases, we aren't comparing like for like. I believe this is what desray is talking abt. The bitstream output (decoded by the receiver) does seem to offer "tauter" bass and clearer sounds. Why this is so? I have postulated that this is due to errors/jitters introduced on HDMI cables with MPCM whereas bitstream audio is reclocked after decoding by the receiver. But not everyone's convinced.

There are quite a few forums that talk about why, and have there own comparison results. Here is a snippet from one forum with a one reason for it to go through the receiver.

I believe audiopholics has a good comparison, ill see if I can find it.

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If you have some good scientific evidence that people can actually hear a difference, I would like to see it.  It is true that the HDMI signal (not the cable, but the signal itself) can introduce some jitter with PCM.  Bitstream would be immune to jitter, as you've said.  However, everything I've read has determined this to be negligible and that of all the things that affect audio quality (speaker placement, room acoustics, DAC, etc.) it would almost certainly be the least important.  It would really surprise me if there was scientific evidence that it could be heard.

I don't really put much stock in unscientific conversations amongst audiophiles.  It's all anecdotal evidence with murky descriptors like "warmer", "tighter", or "flatter" that are hard to quantify.  With how powerful the placebo effect is, especially in the home theater environment, I just can't put any trust in it.  

I mean, science says that the difference between 48khz and 192khz isn't audible to the human ear as both can perfectly reproduce all frequencies that the ear can hear.  Yet, many audiophiles still tout the importance of 24/192 audio, often using vague descriptors.  But when blind, volume-matched tests are done, people can't hear the difference between a source 24/192 audio file and the same file downsampled to 16/44.1.  

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I'll chime in on this first

"Similrly, you can buy a $10 calculator or a $200 calculator, but if they both do division, they both do division.  The results from the $200 calculator doing division aren't going to be any "better" or more "accurate" then the $10 calculator."

I'm guessing that you do not have a science, math, or engineering degree. Yes, your $10 solar calculator will yield the same result when you punch in 4 divided by 2 as my fancy (ie expensive) graphing calculator. But once I got passed my core math classes in college such as calculus and actually had to start using all that math to solve problems that entailed solving multiple equations simultaneously, or performing single/double/triple integrals you bet your mom's furry backside that I wasn't using my cheapie solar calculator (yes I had one of them too).

As for the pcm vs bitstream argument. Technically there should not be a difference perhaps as they both yield "lossless" audio. However if I have choice (and thankfully I do) between having a player decoding a signal vs my fancy surround sound processor, your mom's furry backside is coming off the bench again. It's mostly a question about the components in the player (in this case the Xbox one). Are they capable of decoding the signal as well as my processor? Is the analog circuitry in the player as good as the circuitry in my processor? Had Xbox and Playstation not utterly rushed these "next gen" consoles to the market, and IF they'd have included the best components regardless of price I would perhaps think that the Xbone would be able to yield sound as good via pcm as my processor, at least good enough that I couldn't honestly discern a difference. But let's be honest. The consoles were sadly rushed to the market. And they were built using bargain components. The components might not be bargain quality compared to the norm in consoles but they are most certainly bargain components compared to that of my processor.

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