Digital download disgust!

WHAT ARE YOU DOING MICROSOFT? in one hand you want to path the way for the future of digital download and in the other you allow those DD to be more expensive??? I just don't understand the logic. The snap-to feature of the dashboard seems seamless and one of the key basis behind the one but it doesn't work when the game is purchased via a disc.... Why is the download more expensive? Is it because you and your developers need to cover the costs of production, art work and distribution through space? Do we as a 21st client get more content because we have gone the way you intended? No let's face it your out to get as much money as you can, I for one don't blame you for that but a digital download being £10 for expensive is insulting! Sort it out...and everyone else, put you name below so they can see we really do want to accept the future but not when it's going to cost us!
 

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Last updated July 4, 2018 Views 6 Applies to:

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[quote user="Silent Hysteria"]

The anonymous (confirmed??) engineer at MS that was upset over the reversal of policies said the same thing recently!! "We would have had sales like steam..yadda yadda.  I'm not talking about livelihoods!!  I'm talking about the fact that many costs are cut when you go digital only..retail, distribution, production.  And don't give me that livelihood BS CORPORATE SHILLS like to talk about.  You can't use that as an excuse when going digital cuts the livelihood of gaming stores and distribution companies....  It's a straw man argument.  The ONLY reason they want to go digital is to cut used games/movies....  

What convenience?  Oh you save five minutes not having to stop at a game store?  When you could just pick up a copy on your trip to walmart.  You know what I find convenient?  Not having to delete games when my hard drive is full..not having to toss a brick away when the servers go down.. Being able to take a 60 dollar pike of crap back to gamestop like the crap EA had with is city and diablo on PC and at least recoup some money..that's convenient to me.

[/quote]

EXACTLY!!

Maybe Gamestop will start buying used digital versions if you burn them to a disc?

Seriously though, I would totally love to go all digital, it would be so awesome!

Pros:

No more kids scratching discs

Easy to switch between games

Cons:

No resale

No borrowing

Limited HDD space

No cost savings

The Cons have it.

[quote user="Silent Hysteria"]I'm sorry I'm not going to agree ...the ea refund you linked is garbage.[/quote]That I'm aware of, it is the only official digital return policy for games.

Things do not happen all at once. It took Steam years to get where it is today.[quote]24 hrs[/quote]I think you're missing the point - they added such a thing. One does it, then the others do it, then they start to compete with each other over how long returns are good for (and compete with retail) and before you know it digital has return options similar to retail.[quote]They say digital is the future and physical is obsolete.[/quote]Who is "they"?

Keep in mind that when MS says that, they don't mean physical at retail is obsolete. What they mean is that if all of your content is tied to your account, you can take it anywhere without having to actually cart around discs.

My Steam library is over 350 titles. Imagine if I had to cart around discs for every single one of those titles to authenticate before I play? That's what MS is referring to - cutting the physical cord and letting you bind content to your gamertag.

MS was not trying to get rid of discs at retail. They're aware that download speeds are pathetic. However, those same speeds are just fine for authentication purposes.

I'm sorry I'm not going to agree ...the ea refund you linked is garbage.  24 hrs .....you are taking a gamble that they may just be having a bad launch or just trade it in...if they can bump it up to 72 hrs...maybe...24 for single player games with a clean launch...  Then I would be behind it.  They say digital is the future and physical is obsolete. ...I say malarkey. ..if that were the case you wouldn't need to store your digital download on a hard drive.   The consumer dictates what is the demand not the developer...and MS big 180 showed the consumer wants physical media...so instead of developing some all digital format develop a better physical media delivery system.  

[quote user="Silent Hysteria"]Your discussion points are as it is now...with digital and physical.  I was mainly talking about the move to only digital...which is what the companies want.  If they went all digital..and you cut the 20 dollars or so that go to the distribution production and etc..those companies would not return those costs to the consumer...they would pocket it.[/quote]I don't think we'll see a move to "all digital" for quite a while. What I think comes next is the original Xbox One vision - game discs that serve to speed up install and provide a way to trade-in old games or give games to people. We may also see digital codes at retail on cards, but I don't see that replacing discs until people have 100Mbit as "standard" in the home.

Even MS doesn't believe that physical will go away in the near term. They kept the disc specifically because it's a lot faster for most people to install from Blu-ray vs download.[quote]Buying a second hard drive is not convenient when I could use my 500 gig hd for DLC etc and just store the games on the shelf.[/quote]If you're referring to the 360 generation, not a lot of choice. If you're referring to the Xbox One generation, no choice since all games have to be installed.[quote]As far as games not working when servers go down...that is exactly what would happen once /if media goes the way  MS wanted it to go...DRM ...server check ins...[/quote]Not necessarily. Steam's offline mode is apparently now indefinite. Also, if consoles stick with an x64 base, the days of completely different designs no longer working with the previous gen's games may be a thing of the past. PowerPC is pretty meh and ARM doesn't have the performance at the same energy usage level as x64.[quote]There are not refunds with digital..a company..even when the game is utter crap..will not return money[/quote]Not true. Origin added digital game returns to their service. It is entirely possible to enable digital game returns.

I still don't think you'll see "all digital" next gen or even the gen after that. There will continue to be a need to deliver bits on physical media. Physical also provides presence in stores for people who shop in stores, something the Masses do. Console titles may go the way of PC - the disc is just a bits delivery mechanism with no other meaning - but even today those games are still at retail.

Ok..I think there was something lost in the back and forth and I'm more in track with what you are saying.  Your discussion points are as it is now...with digital and physical.  I was mainly talking about the move to only digital...which is what the companies want.  If they went all digital..and you cut the 20 dollars or so that go to the distribution production and etc..those companies would not return those costs to the consumer...they would pocket it.  

Buying a second hard drive is not convenient when I could use my 500 gig hd for DLC etc and just store the games on the shelf.  As far as games not working when servers go down...that is exactly what would happen once /if media goes the way  MS wanted it to go...DRM ...server check ins...  

There are not refunds with digital..a company..even when the game is utter crap..will not return money

www.polygon.com/.../maxis-general-manager

That's the BS I had I deal with the unplayable sim city...a online only game that is unplayable when the servers go down.  Granted...it's not like I play the entire catalogue of older consoles...but I still play quite a few each year on all the old consoles I own...

[quote user="Silent Hysteria"]I'm not talking about livelihoods!!  I'm talking about the fact that many costs are cut when you go digital only..retail, distribution, production.[/quote]Except they're not. The cost of the goods is around $4 on a $60 title. The cost of stocking at stores is, I believe, $15 or $20. That cost won't go away because the game will still be at retailers so the masses can buy it. For games that are ONLY digital, those costs go away, but how many of those are there that aren't already $20 or less?[quote]And don't give me that livelihood BS CORPORATE SHILLS like to talk about.[/quote]AAA game sales are the primary revenue stream for games. For movies, the primary stream is the box office. For music, the primary stream (for the artists) is live performance. For TV, the primary stream is TV and airing fees. For Movies, Music, and TV, disc and digital copy are secondary revenue streams.[quote]You can't use that as an excuse when going digital cuts the livelihood of gaming stores and distribution companies....[/quote]And for games that are only digital (like indies on Steam and XBLA), that's true and the games are priced accordingly.[quote]It's a straw man argument.[/quote]I don't see how you can say that given the retail realities of titles.[quote]What convenience?  Oh you save five minutes not having to stop at a game store?[/quote]There are multiple reasons I choose digital over boxed:

- Never have to worry about where I put a disc

- Play my game anywhere my PC goes

- Install my game to any PC and play it without needing the disc

- Obtain my copy without ever going to a physical location

- Pre-load my game so it is ready to go when it unlocks[quote]When you could just pick up a copy on your trip to walmart.[/quote]Believe it or not, there is no Wally World anywhere near me that is convenient/easy to get to.[quote]You know what I find convenient?  Not having to delete games when my hard drive is full..[/quote]Buy a second HDD.[quote]not having to toss a brick away when the servers go down..[/quote]Games do not stop working once their download servers go offline. That only happens when the media also fails. It's a valid complaint, but not one that is going to stop those of us who are used to the convenience of digital.[quote]Being able to take a 60 dollar pike of crap back to gamestop like the crap EA had with is city and diablo on PC and at least recoup some money..[/quote]Being digital does not mean a title cannot be "returned" during a grace period.

The anonymous (confirmed??) engineer at MS that was upset over the reversal of policies said the same thing recently!! "We would have had sales like steam..yadda yadda.  I'm not talking about livelihoods!!  I'm talking about the fact that many costs are cut when you go digital only..retail, distribution, production.  And don't give me that livelihood BS CORPORATE SHILLS like to talk about.  You can't use that as an excuse when going digital cuts the livelihood of gaming stores and distribution companies....  It's a straw man argument.  The ONLY reason they want to go digital is to cut used games/movies....  

What convenience?  Oh you save five minutes not having to stop at a game store?  When you could just pick up a copy on your trip to walmart.  You know what I find convenient?  Not having to delete games when my hard drive is full..not having to toss a brick away when the servers go down.. Being able to take a 60 dollar pike of crap back to gamestop like the crap EA had with is city and diablo on PC and at least recoup some money..that's convenient to me.

[quote user="Silent Hysteria"]Companies try to say digital will mean cheaper products[/quote]I've never seen that as an advertised driver for digital on either PSN or the Live Marketplace. Where have you?[quote]but that is a lie.[/quote]Anyone stating that is looking at effect on Steam, not cause. The whole "digital is cheaper" is a few fanboys looking at Steam sales and jumping to conclusions.[quote]They will not lower prices because they know people will still pay 60 for a product...they know they have you.[/quote]First, you're talking about people's livelyhoods. Unlike movies and music, game sales are not a secondary/tertiary/quaternary revenue stream, they're a primary revenue stream. That $60 is the only substantial money to be made on games.

Second, they don't "have you" for multiplatform titles. If you don't like Marketplace pricing, go to PSN. If you don't like PSN pricing, go to Steam. The cost of games over a system's lifespan dwarfs the cost of hardware. So what if you wait six months to set aside the money to collect each major platform? It's not like there isn't plenty to play.[quote]Digital promises are just propaganda to get more money in their pocket.[/quote]Digital is about convenience. It's why most Blu-ray discs now come with an UltraViolet copy as well as a DVD copy. TV series are finally starting to come with digital copy as well.

I find it a bit odd when people use highly negative adjectives like "disgust" when talking about a video game.  It seems to me that if you are so into your game that something can go so far as to "disgust" you about it, then you should probably change priorities or at minimum, log off and gain some perspective.

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