Windows 10 limits max number (32) of threads with MMCSS priority, affecting Digital Audio Workstation software on multi-core CPUs.

Hello,


The issue is explained by Steinberg, here:

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/115000535804-Windows-10-audio-dropouts-on-multi-core-CPU-setups


With Intel i9 and AMD Threadripper CPUs featuring more than 28 threads of execution, Windows 10 appears to be preventing the use of all available hardware resources with professional-grade Digital Audio Workstation software, such as Cubase.
Besides Steinberg's proposed options, i.e. either downgrade to Windows 8.1, or reduce the capabilities of the computer by reducing the number of usable CPU Cores, is there a solution that Microsoft can offer, to increase this limit in Windows 10?

Thank you

 

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Last updated November 8, 2019 Views 8,613 Applies to:

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Exactly what version of Windows 10?

You are talking about some serious processing. It's only been the last year or two that you could get that many threads in a box less than server.

Why, because consumer Windows is intentionally not designed to handle that sort of multi-threaded loads. Consumer Windows (Home) has always had relatively low upper resource limites. At the very least you would have to go to Win Pro or Enterprise to extend that limit, maybe even Win Server. Or do a retrograde upgrade to Win 8. But I would be surprised if it can handle more threads than Win 10. You should post a reply on that site to find out exactly which Win 8.1 he was talking about.

This page only talks about the RAM limits, I'm guessing/assuming that cpu core and thread count support would have a similar ramp up in the limites supported. Look at how the RAM support jumps up. From Win Home to Pro / Enterprise is 16 times higher, then Pro to Server another 12 times higher: 128GB to 2TB to 24TB
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/window...

I found this answer posted July 2015
<snip>

Windows 10 supports maximum memory configurations that were formerly available only in the realm of servers. Windows 10 Home supports up to 128GB of RAM on the x64 platform. Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise both support up to 512GB on the x64 platform. The x86 versions of Windows 10 support a maximum of 4GB of RAM. Windows 10 supports a maximum of two physical CPUs, but the number of logical processors or cores varies based on the processor architecture. A maximum of 32 cores is supported in 32-bit versions of Windows 8, whereas up to 256 cores are supported in the 64-bit versions.
Best,
Andre
Windows Insider MVP
MVP-Windows and Devices for IT
twitter/adacosta
groovypost.com
</snip>

Andre is a respected resource, you'll probably see him replying also.


You should also post feedback using the feedback hub to get direct access to Windows developers. They are unlikely to reply, but they will see it

SEND FEEDBACK TO MS DEVELOPERS
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/for...
This link above is to a “Forum Article” describing the various ways you can now submit “Feedback” directly to MS Developers and Managers.

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Rohn007, all versions of Windows 10 appear to be affected and, unfortunately, your response is completely off topic. You may find useful to read Steinberg's article more carefully.

I use Windows 10 for Workstations but it doesn't make any difference with regards to the limitation identified by Steinberg.

Kind regards

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Steinberg is working on a long-term solution for this that involves changing their code.

Additionally, they have access to a registry work-around that we provided to them last year. They are able to share this with their customers as-needed. It's not something we share publicly because there are system-wide performance implications to just picking a random large number for the process cap.

Here's the feedback hub item for this, with additional information:

https://aka.ms/Lscx6z

Pete

Microsoft | @pete_brown

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Me too , It has been 2 months struggling with the issue . 

Audio Performance seems show the poor activity . Spike , Peak . Really stressfull moment. 

My only big question is , what will be the future of DAW like Cubase to deal with the issue . 

Meanwhile VSTi , are  getting more and more hungry of CPU . Cross finger. Imagine , Multis , Heavy sampling stuffs , all those 

wonderful heavy weight sound like Orchestra Tools , 8 Dio , Spit fire , and super Omnisphere multis plus more more fine VSTi.

I am considering in final decision to downgrade to win 8.1 but , does anybody know how many threads release in priority bases? 

Unlikely , such a wasting effort to buy 10 - 14 core , I 9 , giving an unsatisfactory audio performance. 

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Like I mention above, Steinberg have access to both our recommended practices as well as an interim workaround that doesn't limit your cores or in any way cut down performance for DAW use. Their support should be willing to provide you with the value appropriate to your software and system setup.

Pete

Microsoft | @pete_brown

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Hi Pete 

I thank you for your prompt reply and hope can cure my 2 months die hard effort. 

Well I only got this link

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/115000535804-Windows-10-audio-dropouts-on-multi-core-CPU-setups

which the same as mention by Ntsarb.

I have applied the suggested topic,. and it does not work. 

I have contacted and subscribe to Microsoft Virtual agent and technician yesterday . 

3 different Staffs try to digest with remote control procedure ,and none is workable. 

I would rather confuse now.

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You actually spoke to Steinberg support on the phone and they didn't have the workaround for you?

Pete

Microsoft | @pete_brown

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I Spoke to Steinberg Distributor who has been so helpful and active . 

and they / Steinberg gave me the link as i mention above . 

Which did not change any better . 

I follow the suggestion to add Audio engine.property  , limit to 14 only as Windows requirement. 

I do MMCSS-test and everytime come up with priority 32 and 96 failed out of 128 thread, no change before and after follow Steinberg procedure. 

The only thing i dont follow is the option to downgrade to win 8.1 

It is gonna take some time to re work everything.

Meanwhile I let Microsoft to do a remote MMCS resetting yesterday for AUdio / Pro Audio aspect. 

There is an obvious CPU usage increase almost 50 - 70 % from previous condition but to my regret , 

No audio Performance has given any positive improve. Same thing. Spike , PEak. 

Processor        :   Intel - Core i9 7900X  Main Board   :   Asus - ROG Rampage VI STRIX  X299  - 10 core
Main Board   :   Asus - ROG Rampage VI STRIX  X299  
 V.G.A      :  Asus - STRIX-GTX 1050
Memory Ram  :  G SKILL GSK F4 3200 C16D-32GX2R

Win 10 pro
Cubase 9.5 Pro

Cheers 

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AFAIK, there is no need to limit the to 14. That audioengine.property stuff is what they were using before we provided them with better information. Similarly, you don't need to downgrade to 8.1.

If you speak to Steinberg directly, through their support, they should be able to calculate the right number for your PC and software and give you the registry entry to set a more appropriate MMCSS cap.

Pete

Microsoft | @pete_brown

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Thanks Pete , 

I am focussing to what Steinberg may react to this . 

I just dont understand why they give such not  updated method to solve thousands maybe more  of Win 10 - cubase 9.5  pro users,

which I am sure got the same issue as mine. Wake up Steinberg and be aware of customers issue. 

Imagine , I use Steinberg since ATARI computer era man. So Dont sleep

About the limit MMCSS in  Win 10 , 

even if WIn 10 limit 32 Threads / 96 Failed in MMCSS , does it mean 32 Threads equal to 16 cores ? 

Which is the max numbers of cores usage in the market now ?

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