Dear Microsoft: This just won't do

Maybe something else what you can ask if you use Linux Ubuntu/Mint/Lubuntu etc:

did you stole the idea from multiple desktops?

• And some people like the tile interface on a pc! It's a change, use Linux or a older Windows Version if you don't like the change.

You want this? Why? That's Not a delight to use. Its a customization nightmare. Its also a step backwards. While I amused by the start menu having the live tiles on it, this is a pre beta version that doesn't have what this doesI believe it will.

I LOVE the start button having live tiles on them.  It's off to the side, out of the way from the controls where you need to be.  This start menu is by FAR the best start I've ever seen, and it'll only get better as the months go by towards the final release in late 2015!

Keep it up Microsoft!!!  Looking good so far......more animations and new icons though please ;)

Please will you understand that tiles and modern apps belong only on tablets, they have no place on a desktop where they just look clunky and primitive. You were slated for Windows 8/8.1 despite them being an improved OS simply because of the UI, so with Windows 10 the it's absolutely essential that you get the UI right, especially on the desktop which is where most of your customer base is.

You have to move away from the idea of a common UI on both desktops and tablets. The underlying OS can be the same (more or less) but tablets and desktops needs a different UI because they're used in different ways. You might think that the Windows 7 (and XP) start menu is dated but your desktop customers like it. If you want to bring it "up to date" then look at the start menu interface on Linux Mint 17, it's a delight to use. Everything is where you expect to find it and it's very quick and easy to use. That's what Windows on a desktop should look like.

On installation Windows 10 should either detect whether it's being installed on a tablet or a desktop or, if that's too difficult, it should ask the user at install time whether it's going on a tablet or desktop. Tablets should get the "old" start menu and the tiles and modern apps, that's where they belong. The desktop should not have any of the modern apps installed at all, unless the user specifically asks for them. The desktop UI should have a start menu along the lines of Linux Mint 17 and it should be customisable so the user can easily add programs and groups for example.

I can't stress how important it is that you get the UI right in Windows 10 because that's how most people will judge the OS. Desktops are not dead, they're not even ill, so you have to listen to what desktop users want and then give it to them, even if the designers at Microsoft think it's outdated. Linux on the desktop has come on in leaps and bounds in recent years, so you're betting the farm on Windows 10.

Hi ubuysa

What you are describing is exactly what Microsoft is planning for future versions of the Windows 10 Preview versions.

The new component is called Continuum and is designed to detect what type of PC Device where it is being installed. It will also work on AIO (All In One) devices, such as the Surface Pro 3.

You will also be able to switch the Mode manually, if you wish.

When a Mouse and Keyboard is attached it will automatically switch to Desktop mode and when they are removed it will automatically switch to Tablet mode.

The original vision for Windows 8x was an operating system that will work on any type of device.

Many AIO devices work like the Surface 3 Pro. It can be a Tablet or a Laptop or a Desktop when attached to a Docking Station.

Windows 10 - Continuum:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_O-LrGL-YQ

Regards

Interesting comments, and thanks for the heads-up on Continuum. But Continuum will only be of any use if it gets the awful modern app tiles off the desktop!

I appreciate that a few users like these tiles, that's why I'm in favour of choice, if you want them installed on a desktop you should be able to have them, but for the overwhelming mass of desktop users they have no place.

The Windows 10 start menu for instance has, on the right, an area full of these modern app tiles. The smallest size I can shrink them to is still way too big and clunky to look good and without text labels their function at this size is often obscure. In short they don't do the job they're supposed to. Those that are live tiles should be on the desktop in any case - where they behave just like the old Vista widgets (remember them?).

On my PC I have over 150 start menu items containing well over 300 executable programs (that's an estimate, I've never counted them). I have them organised into logical groups, much as the Linux Mint menu is (within the constraints of the Windows folder system). On a desktop, which is a tool, a "power platform", a workspace, functionality is much more important than image. I want to be able to find my applications quickly and easily. I've been using Linux Mint for a long time and I find it easier to navigate than even the (good) Windows 7 start menu, which is why I made reference to it. I used it as an example, not as a model.

A tablet serves a different purpose to a desktop and with no external keyboard the tiles need to be of a minimum size to be usable with touch. A tablet is much more of a social/multimedia/connectivity tool and tiles, especially live tiles, make sense on that platform. We all understand that, but why must we have them on the "power platform" desktop where they don't serve the same function and where they look like fish out of water?

So I'm arguing for choice, the most suitable menu system for each platform. I dare say the suits at Microsoft babble on about "synergy" and "corporate image" and they want the Windows system to be identifiable as such whatever platform it's on, hence the desire to keep the modern app tiles in the desktop version. But end users don't give a fig for corporate synergy, they want an OS that does what they need it to do, and on a desktop that means a properly organised, intuitive, elegant, and customisable menu system designed specifically for the mouse and keyboard - and with full HD display resolution as the norm.

Microsoft have a golden opportunity here to recover all the respect they lost over Windows 8. Design a new an effective mouse/keyboard start menu, and don't be hampered by synergy with tablets. Windows 10 with a radically new and efficient start menu system would be lauded as visionary. As Windows 10 is now it will be laughed at as Windows 8 with the Windows 7 start menu bolted on and then ruined by modern app tiles!

But above all give the user the choice, even on a desktop the user should be able to chose the tablet UI if that's what they want, I'd suggest the same thing the other way around but a desktop UI on a tablet would be equally horrible. :)

And don't be fooled by the false prophets who foretell the impending doom of the desktop either. I spent most of my working life as a mainframe systems programmer and I've heard countless prophets foretell the doom of the mainframe. Yet almost all banks, insurance companies, airlines, petrochemical companies, and a host of other companies still depend on the power of the mainframe as their major corporate data server. Mainframes are not dead and it will be a very long time before the desktop is dead too.

They say it's easier to keep a customer you have than it is to find a new one. Microsoft have millions of Windows customers on desktops, you took us for granted once with Windows 8's UI, it would be a catastrophic mistake to take us for granted again with Windows 10, or to attempt to fob us off with a fudged start menu such as you have now. Give us a new desktop start menu in Windows 10, but give us choice too so that those who want the tiles can have them.

Having used AIO devices for many years (Starting with a Toshiba Portege M200 - remember them?) I look forward to a completed version of 'Continuum'. I also use straight Desktop PCs and, since the early previews of Windows 8, I have grown to appreciate the value of Modern style tiles on the Desktop - they work fine for me and become 'familiar landmarks' when switching from Tablet Mode to Desktop mode on an AOI or moving to a straight Desktop PC - usually when I need more raw power. Sure, many Desktop uses do not want to change, but in time many more will come to value the 'Tile' approach. Getting some to change will be as difficult as getting them off Windows XP - or even DOS!

I'm truly delighted that you like the modern app tiles, but you're in a minority. And saying "Getting some to change will be as difficult as getting them off Windows XP - or even DOS!" is condescending in the extreme! This is the attitude that will loose Microsoft even more market share if they ship Windows 10 with the existing start menu.

Choice is what I'm asking for. What is needed is a UI that satisfies everyone (or at least most people). The modern UI on a desktop has failed, that much is clear from the abysmally poor takeup of Windows 8 on desktops. Those that are running Windows 8/8.1 (like me) have installed a third-party app that gives us the Windows 7 start menu back - thus we again have a CHOICE.

An OS is far more than it's UI. Windows 8/8.1 is a better OS than Windows 7, but it's let down by an awful UI (on a desktop). Windows 10 will, I'm sure be a better OS than Windows 8, but the UI is what everyone will judge it by. This UI (ie. this start menu) will not do. It's a fudge, it's a panic move, and that's what the media will say and what the masses will believe and with it Windows 10 will fail.

As I said, I'm happy you like the tablet UI on a desktop, I want you to be able to have that. But I also want a proper start menu as an alternative, and the old Windows 7 start menu will not do - not now - only a fresh new start menu will restore the lost credibility created by Windows 8.

CHOICE should be the keyword for the Windows 10 UI. Forcing one UI on everyone is a recipe for another disaster. And please, never again presume to tell me what I want or will need in the future.

Interesting comments, and thanks for the heads-up on Continuum. But Continuum will only be of any use if it gets the awful modern app tiles off the desktop!

I appreciate that a few users like these tiles, that's why I'm in favour of choice, if you want them installed on a desktop you should be able to have them, but for the overwhelming mass of desktop users they have no place.

The Windows 10 start menu for instance has, on the right, an area full of these modern app tiles. The smallest size I can shrink them to is still way too big and clunky to look good and without text labels their function at this size is often obscure. In short they don't do the job they're supposed to. Those that are live tiles should be on the desktop in any case - where they behave just like the old Vista widgets (remember them?).

On my PC I have over 150 start menu items containing well over 300 executable programs (that's an estimate, I've never counted them). I have them organised into logical groups, much as the Linux Mint menu is (within the constraints of the Windows folder system). On a desktop, which is a tool, a "power platform", a workspace, functionality is much more important than image. I want to be able to find my applications quickly and easily. I've been using Linux Mint for a long time and I find it easier to navigate than even the (good) Windows 7 start menu, which is why I made reference to it. I used it as an example, not as a model.

A tablet serves a different purpose to a desktop and with no external keyboard the tiles need to be of a minimum size to be usable with touch. A tablet is much more of a social/multimedia/connectivity tool and tiles, especially live tiles, make sense on that platform. We all understand that, but why must we have them on the "power platform" desktop where they don't serve the same function and where they look like fish out of water?

So I'm arguing for choice, the most suitable menu system for each platform. I dare say the suits at Microsoft babble on about "synergy" and "corporate image" and they want the Windows system to be identifiable as such whatever platform it's on, hence the desire to keep the modern app tiles in the desktop version. But end users don't give a fig for corporate synergy, they want an OS that does what they need it to do, and on a desktop that means a properly organised, intuitive, elegant, and customisable menu system designed specifically for the mouse and keyboard - and with full HD display resolution as the norm.

Microsoft have a golden opportunity here to recover all the respect they lost over Windows 8. Design a new an effective mouse/keyboard start menu, and don't be hampered by synergy with tablets. Windows 10 with a radically new and efficient start menu system would be lauded as visionary. As Windows 10 is now it will be laughed at as Windows 8 with the Windows 7 start menu bolted on and then ruined by modern app tiles!

But above all give the user the choice, even on a desktop the user should be able to chose the tablet UI if that's what they want, I'd suggest the same thing the other way around but a desktop UI on a tablet would be equally horrible. :)

And don't be fooled by the false prophets who foretell the impending doom of the desktop either. I spent most of my working life as a mainframe systems programmer and I've heard countless prophets foretell the doom of the mainframe. Yet almost all banks, insurance companies, airlines, petrochemical companies, and a host of other companies still depend on the power of the mainframe as their major corporate data server. Mainframes are not dead and it will be a very long time before the desktop is dead too.

They say it's easier to keep a customer you have than it is to find a new one. Microsoft have millions of Windows customers on desktops, you took us for granted once with Windows 8's UI, it would be a catastrophic mistake to take us for granted again with Windows 10, or to attempt to fob us off with a fudged start menu such as you have now. Give us a new desktop start menu in Windows 10, but give us choice too so that those who want the tiles can have them.

I agree with the user choice, We all know mainframe will  never die. Microsoft is developing windows to better suit the market. Small devices are in demand. Microsoft would fail miserably if they did not try to compete in that market. Windows 8, 8.1. 10 are all test to this market. The problem is Microsoft changing version so rapidly. Developers have no time to spend building quality apps. This is why I believe this windows 10 should only be a update to windows 8.1 or service pack rather then a new build.

Dear Microsoft,

Leave the tiles right where they are are ... I for one love the quick glance information ... users like this do not speak for everyone ... i am actually bummed that I can't pin a few tiles to my actual desktop ... 

If people like this don't like the tiles they can just unpin them or turn them off ... i like being able to glance to see if I have mail and what it's about ... I like my calendar and weather tiles too.